http://z6.invisionfree.com/Topia/index.php?showtopic=10312

Continuation of that, since it got locked.

I've already said my fair share of what I think on this, but basically, I think he was.

Yes I think he was a great choice. Show's the world really has changed from all the segregation that went on and is turning better.

Complete, and solid yes. I've already stated what I needed to state in other similar topics.

Without a doubt, he is our shining light in these dark times.

I honestly don't know. I think he'll either be great or awful

No. I said my share in the other topic. He'll probably get assasinated within 2 years.

Like Steiner I dont know but were gonna find out soon.

But then again, as of now, he's only our President Elect, and Bush still has another 2 months to do whatever he pleases. So we'll see in about February/Following.

And what reasons are they? I'd love for you to restate here, in this thread.

You just said 1 reason Demonator anyway im just gonna copy and paste what he said in the other topic since he might not see this:

Demonator: Just try not to let it get out of hand! Oh yah, and when I saw Bardocks post I started LMFAO! It is true but I don't know If that'll be bad for the U.S.
Obviously I'm all for McCain!

I'm not saying that McCain's a good choice for president, I just think that Obama is worse. Not to mention he's a socialist!


Remember I didn't say this Demonator did.

Yeah, which is why I asked him to restate them here, not only for the sake of convenience for this discussion, but to help elaborate more on his views against Obama.

The only point I saw in that was the claim that Obama's a socialist. Which my response to him is––do you even know what a socialist is?

. . .

No, sadly. Well, that's me speaking for myself. Mind enlightening me?

Reposting what I said in the other topic:

90% of the time when teenagers say why Obama shouldn't be president they know fuck all what they're talking about and bring up things such as the fact that he doesn't say the pledge of allegiance or that he's supposedly a Muslim (which he isn't). Well guess what: so what if he was a Muslim and who gives a shit whether or not he says the pledge of allegiance? They're non-issues. If your vote is based on the fact that he doesn't say the pledge of allegiance or wants to change the national anthem, then you:
A. Are retarded
and
B. Should not be allowed to vote

There are reasons persons under 18 aren't allowed to vote and ignorance is one of them. There is just as much on either side of the political spectrum, but republican ignorance seems more prevalent in this election. Though Obama has his fair share of uninformed black voters.

Socialism is the theory and practice of government, in which much of the economy is regulated by the government. Production, distribution, and exchange are all controlled by the body of government. In laymen terms, it's a much more hands on approach to the economic conditioning of a country.

One 'socialist' aspect which is frowned upon by conservatives as if it was plague, is universal health care. Despite millions of Americans without health care, they believe that the competition within the free market industry will improve the standards and affordability of health care for all.

The ideal behind a laissez-faire economy is nearly parallel to the very ideal of Democracy, a government of the people, by the people, for the people. It's understandable to why socialism can irk a few people, especially conservative Republicans, who believe that the best government, is less government, but to completely eliminate it's potential from being able to solve some of the toughest domestic issues we face today is beyond foolish. I'm not promoting the United States to adopt a socialist regime, but some of the controversies we face today requires much more flexibility on part of the government.

@Homes: That pic still creeps me out.

You do bring up a good point, though. Obama does have his fair share of uninformed supporters. Namely quite a few black persons, who don't know jack aside from the fact that the color of his skin is the same tint as their favorite candy bar.

As bad as that maybe, I can honestly say a few of the reasons people wouldn't vote for Obama are even worse. Like you said, claims of being Muslim, not reciting the Pledge of Allegiance, doesn't wear a flag pin, etc. The list would go on. He's been called an elitist, a socialist, a Marxist. A black liberal elitist socialist commie, in fact.

The cruel ironic twist is that the people who get a raging boner from preaching bullshit propaganda like that, are the ones who's vocabulary don't reach far enough to comprehend the very words they speak. They fall into more idiotic misconceptions than the number of newspapers Sarah Palin can actually name.

For one, Socialism is different than Communism. Here, let me say it again to those who still don't understand.



While the broad philosophies are very much similar, the extremities and measures taken in order to achieve them are far different. Communism is the community seizure of everything, including individual property, and wages. Socialism is merely more government control and regulation over the market and industry.

Difference.

I wouldn't go that far but he was a decent choice, it'll most likely be awhile after he becomes president before any real change will happen.

I think he's gonna be a good president (I mean...Our last one...Sucked ass) and I think he's the better man (Than McCain)


Something about McCain, look at all his interviews while he's talking. He blinks more faster than I type. He just seemed like a heavy liar and corrupted fellow but that's just my judgement.

Obama seems like he'll go to great lengths to fix shit up. Even if what he proposes seems widely out of control. Yet, reasonable.

Not a good choice. He wants to raise taxes for the people who are already soaked in taxes, and take that money and give it to someone who pays relatively no taxes at all. Socialism much?

Oh and the way he flipped his position on gay marriage was total bullcrap. He went with the more popular thing.

Too many promises that I doubt he will be able to come through with. In his victory speech he said, "Don't expect everything to happen at once." Or something along those lines.

His dealings with an anti-american.

He voted for infanticide.

Not specific on what he plans to do in Iraq.

The only thing that Obama will do well with is universal health care. Good idea, IMO.

It isn't like Mccain is much better, but Obama is way worse.

The Bush Tax Cuts which have been installed for the lasts several years have benefited the rich, more so than the poor. However, now why do they pay even more taxes than before?

It's because their income has increased over the years. This revelation should show the severe growing trend of the gap between the rich, and the poor.

Your point is? The man has shown himself to be well-versed in some of the nation's most significant issues today, and has acknowledged to the public that "...everything won't happen at once". I see nothing wrong with installing a sense of hope, and trust in America.

You're pointing towards his association with Bill Ayers, right? I want to clarify that first.

Source

May not be completely detailed, but it should give a decent enough projection of what to expect.

No, he merely voted "no" for a bill that would have simply extended legal protection over an infant who survived a failed abortion. You're putting it in the context that he supports killing little infants. In his defense, he claimed that it's not needed, because doctors are already expected to attempt to save whatever life they can.

Obama was the best choice ever. McCain would continue the war, which would be pointless and wouldn't exactly help with our reputation with the UN.

I support abortion, in some cases. If it's rape, I'm all for it. It wouldn't be exactly wonderful if you found out your daddy was in jail and did bad things to your mommy, but if it's something like money problems, I'm against it, because you shouldn't have had sex in the first place.

Also, I'm really glad youth can't vote. As far as I could tell, everyone (except for me) would just vote for McCain because of some YouTube crap about how Obama's not from America or how Obama is Muslim or some crap like that (Which none of it is true).

McCain would drill oil, totally destroying our (and everyone elses) environment. Obama plans to drill less oil, and look into other resources, like Wind power.

Overall, mccain sux obama ftw.

There, now back to WoW.

No.

And XD @ Damon's whole post.

"Also, I'm really glad youth can't vote. As far as I could tell, everyone (except for me) would just vote for McCain because of some YouTube crap about how Obama's not from America or how Obama is Muslim or some crap like that (Which none of it is true)."


I don't know where that crap came from, but that's (for one) pretty irrelevant, and (for two) far from correct. I don't know a single person under the age of 15 that would have voted for John Mccain.
Myself, I voted for John Mccain. Not because I liked him, but because I knew the congress would be mostly left wing'd and I didn't want a democratic or "communist" (Although calling Barack Obama's policies even Socialist is a stretch.) in the white house.

But, we have a democratic president elect, house, senate, and congress. :dtu:

Eh, I'm picking up a lot of misinterpretations in this thread...

Just to start off, I never wholy for or against 1 candidate. Honestly, I've become rather cynical and can't see any Republican or Democrat fixing America anytime soon. With all the preachs of "Bipartisan Thinking", you'd suspect someone would at least have attempted to go against their Party. This didn't happen, period. Until we get a president willing to combine the best of Conservative values with some solid Liberal planning, I think we'll be in for hard times.

But, we're dealing with Obama for the next 4 years, so let's talk about him.

I was too Young to vote in the Election, which makes me really feel the age limitations are bullshit. I participated in 2 Mock Presidential Debates in the year leading up to the election and was probably far more educated on the candidates and their views than most adult Americans. However, I was born a year and a half too late to have any say in the Election. I honestly think a Voting age of 16 makes more sense.

But let's get away from that rant.

I feel many people do have misinterpretations about Obama so we'll just cover those.

Obviously we all know that Obama isn't Muslim or "Anti-American" (and trust me I am NOT implying the two are the same thing), so it's silly to argue about that anyways.

Obama is NOT Anti-War. He believes that we should withdraw troops from Iraq, in order to move them into Afghanistan or Pakistan. If you are Anti-War, then neither candidate is your man.

Also, I really hope no one here tries to defend Obama's relations with Bill Ayers. As much as I'm sure Obama regrets associating with him, he did start his political career in Ayers' living room. Bill Ayers is a despicable man and a murderer, who deserves to rot in a jail cell for the rest of his life. Where is exactly where he would be had it not been for unwarrented wire taps.

Moving onto some of the issues, it seems very clear Obama will not be able to keep his promise of lowering taxes for the Lower/Middle class. He plans to implement a Health Care program that will put a strain on the budget, and it is very important that he cut the deficit if he wants to be re-elected.

But, let's say he does follow through on his plan. Will it help middle class? As of right now, I'm pretty sure people making under a certain amount of money (30,000 annual income, perhaps?) do not pay an Income Tax. However, I'd have to look that up.

Big Bussiness will make a point out of laying people off if you increase their taxes. They will try to get as much work done by as few people as possible. Jobs WILL be cut. Paying a little extra income tax is a better solution than not having a job.

This post is getting a little long, so there is one more thing I'd like to adress really quickly. Obama has already broken promises *cough*CampaignSpending*cough*, so don't get your hopes up. At the end of the day, the man is still a politician. Just keep that in mind.

Well, there's my rant :P

I agree, but not completely. While I can also say I'm more competent in politics that quite a few of the people who voted in this election, I can't say that would apply to mostly everyone in my age group. Only a few people my age barely keep up with the political scene, while many others have a rather superficial, shallow, and biased mindset against Republican policies. However, upon closer examination, one can conclude the same case for most adult Americans, anyway.

Um, so would the other three or so people that were also with deserve the same negative attention for their relations with a domestic terrorist? Simply because he associated with him, does not imply any support of Ayers's terrible acts was evident.

That's a silly theory, while seeming viable, hasn't panned out as absolute law in recent generations. Obama's tax policies can be considered to be vaguely similar to Bill Clinton's from a broad perspective. I'm sure they have their respective differences, but I'm not one to explore the minuscule details pertaining to politics.

Umeployment Rate in Clinton's Presidency

Taking a look a this graph, it's quite easy to see the trend of the unemployment rate with respect to Clinton's presidency. It has a seen a more or less, consistent decrease over his two terms. Whether the latter drop in the last few years in his Presidency was caused by the tax cut passed by the G.O.P congress at the time, is left up to another debate. However, anyone can come to the conclusion that unemployment was not a significant factor in the initiation of Clinton's tax policy.

No, I don't think he was a good choice. and just to get it out of the way I don't about his race or religion(whatever it may be) or crap like that. I'm just personally against his views.

I think the whole distribution of wealth is stupid. Taking money from people work hard for a living and give money to those who do nothing, kinda messed up, IMO.

He wants to make his own civil police service that listens to him and just as strong as the coast gaurd and army(sounds familiar? hitler much?)

I basically think the presidential election is picking the lesser of two evils really. McCain i think was a bad canidate for the republicans and I disagree more strongly with Obama. But I do wish him luck cus I would love to see this country move forward and heck mayb he can prove me wrong and be a good president, idk.

Wow, I don't know whether I should be offended by this. You're proposing the assumption that the entire middle class, which make under $250,000, do nothing to earn their living. Well, let me tell you this.

My mother is unable to find employment, not only because of the lack of available jobs in my area, but also she has to take care two children—which includes myself, and my eight-year old sister. This leaves the responsibility to my father to earn the living for the household. We're experiencing mortgage problems, and they're merely becoming worse with each passing day. My father is on the brink of losing his job. And all I can do is sit here in front of the computer, and read insensitive posts like yours, and go; What the fuck?

I'm not one to go out of my way to create a sympathy case for my own benefit, but I'm merely doing this to get the point across. There are many other families out there who are experiencing similar, if not worse situations then my own. To believe that the large majority of the exhausted middle class doesn't deserve relief due to the lazy asshole minority is cold-hearted approach to a potential crisis that may erupt on a larger scale basis tomorrow. It's the equivalent of saying the entire population, residing in the United States, is racist Jesus-freaks, simply because of the dumbass minority who attracts attention and becomes the basis of such a stereotype.

If you're going to make such claims, at least have the decency of posting a valid source, please.

To compare the man to a figure who incited a large scale war, and one of the most massive and historic incidents of genocide, is the bottom of the low.

Uhh...

You do know that the Middle class pretty much makes up our economy and we do work for our money right? Iky pretty much summed up that point, go fucking research instead of making such a stupid claim. My mom's on 3 jobs and still doesn't have enough money at the end of the month.

he said it in one of his speaches at a rally, i heard the sound bite from the speech on the radio. go look for it if you dont believe me. but thats exactly what he said. so its not a claim. its the truth.

How about actually listening to the whole speech? He was specifically discussing the service of our country which has been greatly admired throughout time. From our military, to our local police and firemen stations, to our community organizers. A call to service, if you will. Going through, and detailing the significance of the bona fide devotion and contribution to our nation as a whole, no matter how small that maybe. To expand that opportunity for everyone, no matter their age, or skills. To unravel the general apathy of our generation, and to convert that into what could potentially benefit the next decades to come.

Now, here's the actual quote in question.

"We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives we've set. We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded."

When he refers to a 'civilian national security force', he's referring to the local police officers and firemen that serve throughout the country. The brave citizens who risk their lives to sustain order and safety within. It's not a call to install a brand new security force, it's call to strengthen these noble forces. To expand the door, and redefine new ways of serving one's nation, through economic and social engineering. This country's progress begins with us, the normal, everyday citizen, and no matter how small the service we perform, it's the genuine and grand mutual love for our nation which brings it one more step forward toward the tomorrow we, as a common interest, desire. To simply take up arms isn't the only exclusive way to serve our nation.

When he meant '...just as powerful, just as strong...', he meant just as efficient. There's no denying that the people of this nation have the potential to achieve great accomplishments, when they come together.

It's baffling how people construe such noble words to satisfy their shallow, and superficial understanding of the political nature of this country. Obviously, if he did intend to mean what you're accusing him wanting to do, this would have received much more media coverage, and attention.

fail ITT

I think he was a good choice. I think either way Obama or McCain, it would help the USA. USA needs change and both candidates could have provided change. I personally think Obama was the better choice though.

Dead thread, but complete no.

Why complete no? : (

Yeah, really. A complete no?

I don't know, I pretty much disagree with all of his political views. I wouldn't have been happy with John McCain either. In my opinion, we need a true libertarian/conservative such as Ron Paul. John McCain is just a pansy and doesn't truly stand for anything.

Ron Paul, I agree with.

As for Obama, I don't really have a set opinion on him as of yet. Some of his policies enactments have gone well through my eyes, yet there's still many problems he has left to address. However, you have to consider exactly how much is on his plate at the moment.

Bleh, I need to keep up with current events more.

If I ever try to keep up with current events, I get sick of hearing about politics all the time. All I really know is that I believe that Obama's political beliefs will not benefit the country. And that's all I gotta say.

And yes, Ikarou, we've had our talk about Ron Paul, haha.

Well, Obama doesn't like vidya games, so I've got a mixed opinion. : (

Hahaha.

What exactly do you mean he "doesn't like video games"?

http://kotaku.com/5291943/obama-maybe-not-...endly-after-all

He just thinks we should be more productive, is all.